Transcript of Phone Conversation between
Clackamas County Commissioners Attorney Myles Ward
& Clackamas County Lawful Government Alliance
representative Charles Stewart.
Tuesday 19-October-1999 between 12.01 & 2.00pm


<Part intro stuff snipped, introductory trivialities.>

Charles Stewart: What were concerned about is um, um, did you get a copy of that Madden v Crawford case?

Myles Ward: No I haven't, I haven't looked ard: No I haven't, I haven't looked it up. What is your concern?

Charles Stewart: My concern is um whether or not, the use of emergency powers ah, is being used to fill a gap in the administration of justice in the county.

Myles Ward: What emergency powers are you talking about? That's what I didn't understand.

Charles Stewart: Well, actually, there's a broad one, & which is, ah, I've done some research in the ordinances, & it looks like um, probably close to half of the ordinances under which Clacunder which Clackamas County is presently governed are, have declaration of emergency clauses in them.

Myles Ward: Right, Right.

Charles Stewart: I guess to focus on that first, can you tell me what the rationale is behind um this epidemic use of declarations of emergency?

Myles Ward: Yea, It's purely a formality, Its designed uhh, to keep from having to wait the uhh, number of days that is required by statute to wait for the ordinance to go into effect in the absence of a declaration o declaration of emergency, which I think is 90 days.
So all were doing is trying to umm, enact the ordinances, & have them go into effect sooner, rather than later.

Charles Stewart: It has nothing to do with uhh, by-passing Constitutional Restrictions ? ...

Myles Ward: Lord No.

Charles Stewart: OK, Well, umm; To focus on, on, the more pressing issue then, would uhh, be the concerns for uhh, the manner in which justice is administered with-in the county, umm Oregon's Constitutigon's Constitution Article 7 Original I think it is, has a clause that refers to "Counties Organized for Judicial Purposes"; umm, and also references made on over in the legislative department under Article 4 Section 23 which refers to the umm, uhh, the prerogatives of "Local" Governing Entities, umm, to which I think Clackamas County as I understand it would be a "Local" uhh, political sub-division of the State? ...

Myles Ward: Were a "County". It's a County. It's a division of the State.

Charles Stewart: Yea, yea, it's a division of the authority ...

Myles Ward: What, But what, you know, what, whats your concern, what,
what do you think is going on that shouldn't be going on?

Charles Stewart: Well, um, it looks like the county is acting as a
"Municipal" form of Government; Is that Correct?

Myles Ward: Whell, (cough); We operate under Chapter 203 (cough), which gives the County the power to sue, & be sued, purchase & hold land, make all nec make all necessary contracts & do everything else in relation to the property & concerns of the county, so (cough) by statute we have very very broad authority to function; and I mean I, I dunno what, I dunno, these labels your putting on it, I, I got a feeling are going to lead us into disagreement; but if you look at Chapter 203 , umm these statutes have been on the books for many years, have been upheld by the courts, as being Constitutional; & again, my question to you is, what iu is, what is it that your concerned about that's going on, that you don't think should go on; I, I may not be able to help you but at least I would like to know what it is specifically that your talking about.

Charles Stewart: Yes, yes, Im Im concerned in bringing the, the, the controversy into focus myself.
ORS 203.035, subsection 2, says:
    "The power granted by this section is in addition to other grants of power to counties, & shall not bamp; shall not be construed to limit or qualify any such grant and shall be liberally construed, to the end that counties have all powers over matters of county concern that it is possible for them to have under the Constitutions and laws of the United States and of this state."
    OK? And um my reading of um uhh, the Constitution at Article 4 Section 23, indicates that that, the, the County, is essentially has the authority to disregard the Statutes of Oregon, becau Oregon, because ....

Myles Ward: No way. If that's what your calling about, I don't, we don't need to talk about this, We we don't have the, No-body has the authority to disregard the, the Statutes imposed by the Legislature. (Cough) Sorry. But if that's, if that's your issue, you know, no way.

Charles Stewart: OK well, well umm, Just to re-cap here a second, umm, umm, the, your saying that the County does not um, have a, a, umm, th, the authority to "Self-Govern" free from regu..?

Mm regu..?

Myles Ward: No, I didn't say that! You know, this is the worst th, thing about talking to you, I say one thing,
& you throw it back to me in, in a completely different form. I Never said that. You said that ORS 203.035 sub-section 2 gave the County the authority to disregard the statutes, & I said No it didn't. And you said: OK to recap then: You don't believe the County has any authority to Self-Govern. THATS NOT What I Said !

Charles Stewart: OK, Well ...

Mylesl ...

Myles Ward: So lets quit playing games. What is it that your concerned about?

Charles Stewart: I'm concerned about the quality of the Administration of Justice. Im concerned about why were dependant upon the Circuit Courts to Administer Justice for us. Looks to me like the County could be running ...

Myles Ward: Na ...

Charles Stewart: The County cannot run the Administration of Justice?

Myles Ward: Circuit Court has Original Jurisdiction to hear & try misdemeanors & felonies.

Charles Stewart: Was that the Original Plan?

Myles Ward: What do you mean by the "Original Plan"?

Charles Stewart: Wh, the k, the 1857, when the Constitutional Convention came toge ... ?

Myles Ward: I don't know, I, Im not that old.

Charles Stewart: (snickers)

Myles Ward: I don't know what the purpose in 1857 was; I'm much more concerned about1999, & I can tell you that the Laws of the State o Oregon invest in the Circuit Count the authorityt in the Circuit Count the authority to Try Crimes, & that includes misdemeanors & felonies.

Charles Stewart: Well ...

Myles Ward: And the Counties cant just go around saying well, were going to take it all back, & were going to convene a County Court, I mean you know.. I, I, If you wanna, If you wanna research this, that's fine; but I disagree with you.

Charles Stewart: Well sir, umm, umm the, wa, wa, were gonnna be talking the commissioners about this,
& we tried to do that the other week; & um, the commissioners directed us towards you, uh If ...

Myles Ward: Well, I've I've tried to be fe uh, fair and direct with ya, I disagree with everything that you've indicated to me that, that you believe, and I dont I, I don't have any legal basis to believe that your right at all.

Charles Stewart: OK, Well at that point were going to have to go back and be talking to the County Commissioners then.
(moment of silence) Um... because it, it appears that um... because it, it appears that uh, were no longer able to pursue constructive discussion here.

Myles Ward: Well it all depends whatch ya mean by destructive cons, constructive discussion;
what Im telling ya is; your 100 % Wrong.

Charles Stewart: (snickers) Is the County considerable, the present uh, County Commissioners considerable as a "Municipal" form of Governance?

Myles Ward: The, the Board of County Commissioners operates under ORS Chapter 203; I mean you know, take a look at it.

Charlest it.

Charles Stewart: Ye, yer not answering the question sir.

Myles Ward: Yes I am, you don't like the answer, but Im answering the question.

Charles Stewart: I, eh, It's a "Yes or No" Answer. Is it ...

Myles Ward: No it's Not; I don't believe in "Yes or No" Answers.

Charles Stewart: (snickers)

Myles Ward: I've answered your question legally; you don't like it, yu, yu, your playing these games, trying to get me to say something that you can carry away as being a big uhh, inflaa big uhh, inflammatory statement by the one of the county lawyers,
& Im not going to give that to ya. Its Not a simple matter of "Yes or No". This is why "Law" is a very difficult subject for people to understand.

Charles Stewart: Well, uh ...

Myles Ward: (Interupting) Ya got, ya got the Constitution ...

Charles Stewart: (interupting) It is for one of us.

Myles Ward: (snickering) hOKayayay. Well Im, Im glad your so confident & uh, I wish you the best of luck, and trying uck, and trying ta, ta do whatever it is ya hope ya want to do, & God bless you & good by. (Click).

I, Charles Bruce Stewart, do hereby Publicly Swear before "Almighty God" as referred to in Article 1 Section 2 of Oregon's Constitution, also known as: "YHVH", so as to make this "Solemn Appeal" to Him, that He witness my words herein, & that He take my soul & my soul & Torment it forever in Hellfire, or that He do to me the most Terrible of whatever else conceivable Punishment He shall deem appropriate:
If any of the Words I set forth within each page of this document Be False.
Also, any mere penalties of Perjury which mere men may sanction against me I will submit to in such a case.